Herb ([info]hardyharhar) wrote,
@ 2006-06-17 13:20:00
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American Indian
I talked to Vivek about the whole "India" thing while waiting for Nacho Libre to start yesterday. You know, my contention that there's no such thing as India, or it's a very weak post-colonial construct, at least.

I'll just restate it. A Punjabi has much less in common with a Goan than an Alabama trailer home dweller has in common with a Hollywood movie mogul. Across America, there is at least a shared mythology. The myth of the self-made man, like Iacocca or Sam Walton. There is George Washington and his cherry tree, there is Abraham Lincoln rising up from poverty, hiking miles to the library and coming home to read by candlelight, there is Rosa Parks spontaneously deciding that enough is enough and sparking an insurrection, etc., etc., etc.

India has no such common mythology. There's no common language (unless you count English--I've read, and believe, that English will allow you to cover more ground in India, geographically, than any native Indian language), there's no common history (some consider Aryans invaders, others brag about their Aryan ancestry. Likewise Mughals.)

Westerners might point to the myth of Ghandi, but even that does not carry all across the sub-continent.

"But we have a shared experience," argued Vivek. "A common set of experiences that unites us."

"Maybe in the diaspora," I halfway agreed. "When outsiders look at us, they see the same thing. So we are treated the same, and you can argue that we share those experiences...but only in the diaspora. And do we want others to define who we are, anyway?"

I mean, I was raised to be proud to be a Sikh, a Punjabi jat. Within that identity construct, we definitely have have a common mythology--mostly involving martyrs who were killed at the hands of the cruel Mughals for not converting to Islam, like Bhai Taru, who allowed his scalp to be removed rather than cut his hair, or Bhai Mani Singh who's body was severed, one joint at a time, or the fifth Guru, Arjun Dev who was forced to sit on hot iron sheets while burning sand was poured on him, or the ninth Guru, Teg Bahadur, who was beheaded, and the list goes on and on...Not to mention the women like Sardarni Sada Kaur, and Mai Bhago who PROVE, beyond a SHADOW of a DOUBT, that Sikhs treat all women fair and equal (that's sarcasm, y'all)...

Anyway, I digress. My point is that, although the people of the subcontinent have a rich and ancient history, "India" is a young nation and has not forged much of a national identity, yet, and regional identities are much stronger, in my experience.

So I hung up the phone and met Tish and Iris and Patrick and Tiffany, and as we headed toward the escalator, Tiffany, who is West Indian (raised in England), turned to me and asked, "So, where are you from? I mean your people."

"India," I answered...

...which led to a whole big discussion about this same thing with Tiffany...



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a shared myth?
(Anonymous)
2006-06-18 08:03 am UTC (link)
I don't think there is a shared mythology in the U.S. probably just as much as I don't think there is a shared mythology in India, in the subcontinent, in South Asian (or whatever we would like to call it). Mythologies are constructs and much like history, are often produced by those in power. Yeah, there are notions of the rugged capitalist individual as shown by Iacocca and Walton, or the rugged dissenter like MLK, Jr. or Malcolm X, but I don't think these are shared across a majority (perhaps a minority) of people. I agree there is a notion that the U.S. is THE place for opportunity and its extension, the pick yourself up by the bootstraps myth, but I'm not so sure that people share that idea across the country. Maybe desis (haha!) tend to think so because a combination of factors plop highly educated desi businesspeople, doctors, engineers here who just so happen to become ridiculously wealthy because of their. But ask any working class person of color, and they'll probably tell you that this place sucks, in different words. And they do not share the mythology of Iacocca, maybe not even of Parks.

And you might say, its a myth so whether or not its true is a separate issue. But I think a myth is only as good as the number of people who believe it. And I think there are a lot of people who don't believe in the same myths as whats written in the history books or propagated by the government.

But back to 'desi' - I don't think I ever said it applied to folks living within the subcontinent (and if I did, whoops!). I think it applies more 'accurately' to those in the diaspora as a means to crudely identify people who, at some point, had ancestors that lived in the subcontinent (or South Asia, etc.). I think once people get on that jet plane out of their respective country, they fall into that group. There is no desi prototype, yes, but there are things common to desi experiences (racism, classism, etc.) that make it a useful term.

Plus I do agree that regional identities are much stronger but I still think there are enough commonalities to warrant the use of this weird 'desi' term. And 'desi' is a term used by 'us' to describe 'us,' I don't think its used by others to describe us.

Lets take a contemporary example - a Punjabi and Uttar Pradeshi having enough commonalities to be able to start and continue a discussion on this particular issue makes me believe in the power of the word 'desi'!

Vivek
vivekmittal.com

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Re: a shared myth?
[info]hardyharhar
2006-06-18 09:59 pm UTC (link)
The debate continues here.

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Re: a shared myth?
[info]hardyharhar
2006-06-18 10:08 pm UTC (link)
I think you're wrong about the shared mythology in the U.S. The myths of free speech and lifting yourself up by the bootstraps and "democracy" and "free trade" and evil unions and the altruism of American foreign policy, etc. I'm not saying that EVERYBODY believes these myths, but enough people, and people in power, certainly do.

And I wish you were right about asking any working class person of color man, but I know that Punjabi people LOVE working at Wal Mart. They think it's the greatest employer around, and they don't get why Americans bitch so much about how much Wal Mart sucks. I strongly recommend you go talk to Raja at the Citgo on Westheimer and Shepherd. The dude has been in America for about a year and probably works 18 hours, seven days a week, and he LOVES it. (Go figure!)

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